The Gospel in an Open Letter: An Honest Message to Atheists, Agnostics, and Anyone Looking for Truth

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  4. The Bankruptcy of Atheism

There is none who does good. Remember, this person who you think is intellectually smarter than you, they may have more degrees after their name than the alphabet, but you know and you have something on them. What do we have? We merely have letters that have circulated. We have fragments that we have pieced together. Tune in students, because this is remarkable.

P stands for papyrus. It was one of the types of material that this scripture was written on. Simple enough, P He walked away before he got the answer. He washed his hands of his own question. What is truth. What is truth? We only get to choose what we do about it. I shared last time I was here that when I go to the universities and students will begin to ask me questions and a barrage of questions come out, what do I say? You have questions, guess what?

In other words, there are some things that need not explaining. An atheist, when he comes up with his self-refuting statements, we merely have to point those things out. I want to go over a couple of those with you. Each person is merely dancing to the beat of their own DNA. They can do whatever they want to do and they answer to no one. That each person is their own sovereign, which means they do whatever they want whenever they want to whomever they want and they answer to no one.

This is the ideology of Brad Pitt and George Clooney as we saw earlier. It causes them to begin to think. What do you mean I need to get right with God or I go to Hell? What kind of a loving God would ever send somebody to Hell anyways? A God who cares about right and wrong and good and bad. There are so many worldviews.

Mormon temples are being built at a rate of two per day around the world. Are you right that nobody is right? Somebody must be right or everybody is wrong. I say God is right. His judgments are right. God is the arbiter of the Law. He is above the Law and the Law represents Him. We can go through the Law; it brings a knowledge of sin and we want to get to the gospel. What is the gospel? The life, death, burial, and resurrection of the King of kings.

I have no problem with that. You have no problem with contradicting yourself when you talk? Are you listening to yourself? You see, contradictions equate to lying and lying is wrong with God. There are things that God detests and a couple of those is lying. God desires truth in the inward parts. We must speak the truth and we must speak it in love. The heart of the atheist. There are no moral absolutes. Then I go through that argument. We looked at the knowledge of the atheist.

We looked at the heart of the atheist. First, we see James. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. No moral compass. The only person who can truly never be a hypocrite is an atheist. You can never be a hypocrite because you have no moral compass telling you what is right or wrong. You and I know that he does have a moral compass. Welcome to the family.

Guess what? You are like me. Because those are written by men and everybody knows that men make mistakes. You have a problem with the God of the Word. The Bible is filled with mistakes. I tried to jump in the midst of that and missed all their hands. You do trust things written by men. The Bible is not one book but 66 books.

How does that take place? He did it. He opened my eyes. I was once in darkness, loving darkness and being darkness, heading and running in the wrong direction, loving sin and fornication, loving getting high. God reached down into the dark cavern of my heart. He could do the same thing for you, but you got to repent and place your trust in Jesus. Are you willing? Are you ready?

Would you be willing to bow your knee to the God of the Bible and confess Him as Lord? Miracles are impossible because they are impossible. Circular reasoning. Surely, you have to come to the place and you confess to the idea that if God is real then miracles can exist. I like sleight of hand. I toured around Europe, escaping out of a straight jacket and a chain and doing sleight of hand magic. I performed at the Magic Castle in Hollywood.

You said perform a miracle. You have no idea how it was done. Survival of the fittest. You should be applauding God for getting rid of the weaker race. Let the record show religion is actually number two. Atheism is actually number one, the cause of more wars from Lenin to Stalin to Mao who exterminated more than a hundred million people in the 20th century alone. Their institutionalized atheism lead to an unprecedented loss of human life.

As I see it, belief in this creature is based on little more than tradition, fear, credulity, and faith. If anyone can propose a specific solid reason why they think he is real, I will be happy to provide a solid argument for why I think they are being hosed. The least they can do is admit that there is a lot of evidence that should be countered with argument.

These arguments include historical, cosmological, personal, philosophical, archeological, scientific, teleological, etc, etc. Pick one or two and tell us why it is wrong. All that said, I agree with some of the above, that I did not like the tone of this article. I agree that it comes across as condescending and I disagree with some of the premises. I think there is a miscommunication on definitions. You can find plenty of rebuttals to those arguments that will be much more through and better written if you search online.

To me, the cosmological argument seems to suffer from the Argument from Ignorance fallacy. It is essentially saying that Something Unknown caused the universe, therefore it was God. Attributes such as personal, omnipotent, and benevolent get tacked on haphazardly after that. I prefer to say that if Something Unknown caused the universe, then that thing is unknown and we are not justified in claiming that we do know about it. Seems like its just assuming the existence of God so that we can satisfy the answer to an interesting question.

Point of order. You say that it is unsatisfactory. I wonder why that is. It seems that it is at least a reasonable option. I would not argue that this is the only possibility in which one could believe, only that it is a perfectly reasonable option. Let me try to elaborate:. It is not enough to provide God as a hypothesis for the creation of the universe, there needs to be supporting evidence that the hypothesis is true as well.

The Cosmological Argument which is what I was addressing just provides this hypothesis and assumes that because it could be the answer, it therefore is the answer. However, we are not justified to conclude that, in these cases, God, Zeus, and the multiverse exists, simply because they might.

It is a leap to go from God is a potential answer to this question, to God is the answer, to therefore God exists as the Cosmological does. I am familiar with the Bible verses that mention God spreading out the heavens. In my opinion, it is a bit of a stretch ha! I know that there are many verses in the Bible that can be interpreted to support modern scientific discoveries. I find that many of these rely heavily on creative interpretation and cherry-picking. For every verse that can be interpreted to explain some aspect of biology, there is another that suggests that heredity is based on what animals are looking at while mating.

It was only after we discovered the expansion of the universe through scientific observation that people started applying this new interpretation to the text. But we can make conclusions based on a preponderance of evidence. Other scientists, however, hold that perhaps our universe did not originate from a Big Bang, but rather that the Big Bang is merely a mirage created by the implosion of a 4D black hole.

Either way, scientists are in the business of challenging the theories of their colleagues and testing everything. Out of testing and argumentation comes a better understanding of truth. Many scientists are convinced of the Big Bang based on the preponderance of evidence they see supporting it.

Why is it so unreasonable, then, that a Christian would consider the possibility of God as the First Cause, combined with the complexity and wonder of creation, combined with the voices of ancient prophecy, combined with the ontological factor of our nearly universal searching for a divine presence, etc. What concerns me is the insinuation that since we cannot conclusively say that God was the First Cause of the Big Bang, we therefore are not allowed to conclude that He exists. And most of the Christian apologists I know are fairly sharp as well.

There are certainly plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the debate, no argument there. Of course, since the two sides are arguing opposite points, they cannot both be right. One of the sides, even with its intelligent supporters, is wrong. Hopefully, discussions such as this one can lead to figuring out which side that is. I agree that if there is a preponderance of evidence pointing toward something it makes sense to believe it.

The evidence for the Big Bang is a great example of this. However, it is important to distinguish between a hypothesis and the evidence supporting the hypothesis. The hypothesis is just an idea: a potential explanation. The evidence is the observations, measurements, etc. The reason I bring up this distinction is because I was specifically addressing the Cosmological Argument, which seems to muddle up the distinction between hypothesis and evidence.

It proposes God as a hypothesis for the origin of the universe, but then tries to use that hypothesis as if it were evidence. But note that it called the Cosmological Argument, not the Cosmological Hypothesis. I cannot see the Cosmological Argument as evidence for God, which is how it is usually presented. You seemed to realize this as you presented God as a possibility for creation and then offered other arguments for the evidence. You brought up other evidences for God: complexity, prophecy, ontology, etc.

A preponderance of unconvincing evidence in my opinion, at least does not add up to good evidence. I am sure that you would disagree on the quality of those evidences and I accept that. That is why we have come to different conclusions on the existence of God. It gives me more faith in the scientist. They are merely ours to observe and explore.

Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light. Perhaps I should rephrase. My confidence in scientists grow when they discover something that is evidently a part of the way God has either created the universe or unfolded its history, whether or not there is any particular proof text to cite or not. I realize the church has historically used Scripture inappropriately to support various theories later proven untrue — like that whole flat earth thing. Then start there my friend, what is the scientific proof of god.

So what? Methodologically this is invalid. Whenever I hear this from theists, I have to sigh because there is no end to the logical refutations of every single one of your arguments which you think support your belief. That is, everything we can see, touch, experience, contemplate, is evidence for their God.

Because their God is the only conceivable entity that could have created everything, therefore, their God must exist. And so on. I have engaged in several in-flight discussions with people attempting to share their religious beliefs with me. The most fruitful one by far began with a cold airplane cabin. The person sitting next to me requested a blanket from a flight attendant. There were none to be had, so I offered them an extra t-shirt I had in my carry-on bag, which they gratefully accepted and used as a makeshift covering. As the flight ended we exchanged contact information and to this day are friends who can freely discuss our differing beliefs while maintaining respect for one another as thinking individuals.

Too often either side will begin to argue against what they think the other party thinks without even attempting to ask them first. I agree with the third point, though I object to the last part of the statement.

I find the final part to be condescending, dishonest, and frankly guilty of exactly what Pastor Stier just suggested not to do! Ditto part four, and more dishonesty. This is more mental insulation, an attempt at distancing oneself from having to acknowledge that while they believe something to be divinely revealed truth, many others believe it to be superstition.

Your own life is the most convincing testimony to the strength of your beliefs, though not necessarily a demonstration of the truth of them. Dishonesty is far and away the easiest means of turning people away from what you believe, because people who sincerely believe in the truth of a notion have no need to be dishonest in making their case.

Our plane was delayed for about 6 hours. It was late at night and folks were getting very impatient some trying to sleep on the floor, etc. The airport was incredibly congested and nobody was having any fun. Some folks decided it was a good time to party and they could be heard at the bar making more and more noise as a number got pretty wasted. Anyway, when we finally boarded the plane, and as I was heading down the aisle, I saw a lady who was white as a ghost, singing incoherently , and vomiting into a bag.

Sure enough I was assigned to sit next to her for a 3 hour flight. I had a decision to make and I decided that if I am the Christian I claim to be, then I will serve her and show love to the best of my ability. That meant that for the next few hours, I was attended to her needs, which meant mainly providing a constant supply of vomit bags and lots of reassurance that she would be OK.

It was all I could do not to get sick myself. I just treated her with kindness and tried to imagine what Christ would do. She was very kind as well and very apologetic. I felt that this was a metaphor for how I should be living every day and how I should be treating everyone. I fall far short all the time! BTW, I got a standing ovation when the plane landed — I was shocked that the whole plane seemed aware of what was happening. That was my point exactly. Thanks for being one of the people who helps make the world a better place to live in. The first step of asking questions is a good place to start, it is always good to get to know each other.

Your step 2 is bogus in the sense of there being a other reason that no proof of deities. Yes many atheist have stories to tell about bad experiences with religion or a lost loved one. So do religious people- so the cause of their atheism is not always related to their personal experiences. Most of the atheist I know have thought deeply about all things supernatural, and have come to their atheism position after studying the question.

Your step 3 is not supported by what you posted. Your point number 4 is most likely wrong for the overwhelming majority of atheist. Myself and most of the atheist I know do not believe in any deities. Your step 5 is a blatantly an appeal to emotion. For if you did you would realize that atheist are more analytical than emotional especially when it concerns the supernatural. Good luck with that though! It would have been helpful, John, if you had checked your presentation for spelling, grammar, and syntax. It always embarrasses me when a fellow atheist appears to be someone who could benefit from remedial composition.

I assure you that I am more intelligent than I type. I attempted to edit it after I posted it but there seems to be glitch when using an iPad. I hope the gist of what I ment comes though. Just a tangential thought…. Not sure why an ipad means folks cannot check their spelling and sentences. Slow down. Oh well………. Love the tips. Even a few, when faced with death of a friend, still seem to come away with a longing for something beyond the grave.

These are the ones that I get to talk with the most. We love kicking around the longing for eternity, and might that not suggest a God to spend eternity with? You need to stop blogging, because all you are doing is preventing there from being any real communication between atheists and christians.

According to most mainstream Christian doctrines, the people I know and love who have rejected Christianity and are now dead are in Hell, being tortured for eternity. I tell you this now: I am not necessarily averse to the idea of eternal persistence after death, though I have no good reason to believe this actually occurs. I have no desire to spend eternity praising and worshiping the kind of being who would send untold billions of people — some of whom were very dear to me — to be burned forever in a place it built for the purpose.

Could a perfectly Just God allow sin to go unpunished? It seems to me the blame is misplaced.. God desires that they fellowship with Him.. You seem to be viewing this in very black and white terms. The objection that Andy raised was that the Christian god is said to torture people for eternity. You seem to think that the only possible options are to punish sin in this most extreme way with eternal torment, or to let sinners get off with no punishment at all. A third option could be to make the punishment somewhere in between, proportional to the crime the same way we do in civilized society.

Ever notice that not every crime gets the death penalty? Assuming your theology is true, then yes. But providing an easy method of avoiding punishment does not justify the punishment. All you had to do was sing a silly little song! Of course not. I think it is wrong to blame someone for a choice that they were incapable of making.

For whatever reason, the person misunderstood the cyanide label perhaps they misread it, or did not know what the word meant, or had a reason to doubt that the label was accurate. Would that person be blamed for their death if they unwittingly chose the cyanide? Wow, what a mealy-mouthed justification for one of the most morally bankrupt ideas ever.

By way of analogy:. One of your children in particular sometimes plays with matches. You have repeatedly warned them of the dangers of doing so and like any reasonable and loving parent, disciplined them when you caught them in the act of defying you and putting themselves in danger. What would you do? I love them and would risk my own life to keep them safe!

It seems that Mr. I would completely undermine my authority as a parent if I prevented them from experiencing the consequences of their actions. One could even show their children photographs of burn victims to drive the point home. Yes, a perfectly just God could allow sin to go unpunished. After all, sin is nothing more than whatever God wants to be a sin. A perfectly just God would let everyone know what sins actually are in an infallible method, not by informing a few jews and waiting for the information to spread where it has to compete with any other number of religions.

Dante, C. Lewis, and others think Hell is cold. That is to say, in absence of being demonstrably real, people are free to make up pretty well whatever they want about it. Does this mean that these folks just never had any inner longing? People longing for eternal life makes it no more real than kids longing for Santa Claus makes Santa real. The fear of death and the unknown is natural. Connect relationally. Frame the gospel as a love story that just happens to be true. Related Articles.

Greg Stier Greg Stier is a husband, a father, a preacher, an author, a twitchy revolutionary and a fanatic for Jesus. Follow GregStier Posts Twitter. » Lazaroo for ATHEISTS

Leave A Comment. Andrew December 6, at am. The Irish Atheist December 6, at am. Brandon A. Cox December 6, at am. Esau Yakub December 3, at pm. What a Pharisee. This is the reason churches have become void of the work Jesus and Five fold ministry is supposed to. Approved by God unashamed.. The religious Elites. That seems to ring a bell. The only time the Jesus ever woed anyone.

And you profile them. They never had a chance be loved by Christ loves us. Through you and your religious rhetoric. Your job is to love them, and if you truly love God and had the power of salvation? Yes, you can hang out with whoever you like.

The mind of Christ. To obey Jesus and the words he said. Is what a wise Builder does. Read Sermon on the Mount. The poor, of spirit. Those who mourn. The center, and those who love Jesus the most. Those who are forgiven much. No they have much to be forgiven for. With my long hair. My background, and the homeless people I work with every day. They smell like urine. They do meth. They received the gospel, and they love to be loved. Your problem is your love is superficial. I read and you made so much sense.. It was the time of holy laughter and churches passing around huge baskets where women threw in their wedding rings and we said Glory Halleluja and suddenly I knew in my knower I have to get OUT!!!

A man or woman should not put away his spouse except for the cause of fornication. This is a direct teaching of Jesus Christ that is in the new testament. Jesus understands the breaking of the solemn bond of matrimony and what mental damage this does to the relationship, which is why this is the only exception made.

Blessed be the woman who can forgive a spouse of this. But yea, unto you is also given permission to leave upon the breaking of this bond. Sorry where does it say blessed be the woman who can forgive a spouse of this???????? Where women have married devils, it is a certainty that God was not in it in the first place. Same with men who marry devils. It can happen. Looking forward to your reply, Virginia. Pressuring her even though she had Type 1 Diabetes, which had been destroying her body, since childhood.

Wanting the mothers to marry the same kind of jerk they divorced in the first place, just to be married. If after tabulating your needful expenses and paying those things, what is left over would be your increase. If you are barely paying your bills, then you owe no tithes.

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THIS is the way of the Lord. If however you voluntarily pay more than a tenth of your increase, then blessed be ye. And if you are a needful recipient of tithes through your church, then also may the Lord bless you. But this is why people do not want to attend church. My sister decided to leave this church, but she felt she had not right to go to another. There are good churches. Focus on worshipping the Almighty God, not finding wrong in the church. Find a church where the Word of God is being taught and attend.

I agree! There are many God seeking churches out there, we just hear about the not so good ones. If your heart truly wants to find a good church, God will send you there! Not really. If a shepherd had less flock one year than he had the last, he was operating at a loss, and therefore had no increase. Eventually your flock would dwindle away. This would be bad accounting and makes no sense.

It is also important to interpret needful things and expenses, not optional luxuries. If you split hairs too much with the Lord, he will split hairs with you. And also any extra milk gained in excess of the family needs would be tithed too. When he has that, it all works out, giving, living, loving, etc. Now you are actively redefining your definitions. In your example, going from 10 sheep to 5 sheep, there is an increase or an income of 5 sheep. That increase IS your entire income from sheep anyways. Saying elsewhere that you only tithe on net and then claiming that to be increase shows a lack of understanding.

Do you think anyone is claiming that what you already have and have already tithed on it income for a second time? Please examine the heart with which you are approaching these conversations. You appear to be very willingly seeking confrontation, but at the expense of being dishonest. Even in the LDS faith is this how you believe you should act?

Does this fall under milk before meat lying to non-believers in order to convert them? Do you believe your spirit in these conversations is choosing the right? That you have done all that you could do? For if you are seeking contention, then have you not sinned? And if you have, have you done all that you could do and made all of the right choices?

Per the LDS faith, your approach is very likely affecting your faiths idea of salvation. All the costs in maintaining the herd and household are base costs. Sorry, no time to go into it. Have fun. Like it or not the church has expenses. In the years following the ascension of Christ to heaven, followers of Christ provided the needs of the apostles. We should be doing same now so the pastor can pastor instead of selling coffee to make ends meet. The LDS church seems to function fabulously. The LDS works well because it is a corporation which owns gigantic business ventures and funds its chapters from its bureaucracy.

It also deviates from true scripture and adds its own heretical apocrypha to its teaching. Remove the beam from thine own eye, before the mote from thy brothers, that ye may see clearly.

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Such hate is clearly rooted in evil. Judge a tree by the fruit it bears. Quick question for you. And just exactly how would the resurrected Christ visit them? Much as he visited his disciples? To believe that his disciples in Israel were the only people on the planet he visited is quite closed minded, and clearly contradicted by his own words.

Gal Paul, an apostle not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead , Gal and all the brethren who are with me, To the churches of Galatia: Gal Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Gal who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, Gal to whom be the glory forevermore.

No Other Gospel. Gal I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; Gal which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. Gal But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! Gal As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! That is what the bible says no Book of Mormon needed, when Christ sets you free you are free indeed and will look and assist others with compassion since they received the love of God, and are forgiven on the basis of faith alone.

Do you even know what the Bible is? It serves only the arrogance of surety that you would accept only the one compilation The Bible and no others. I smile widely in disbelief also knowing that the included gospels of the old and new testament were hand picked and groomed to the tastes of King James by the autocratic servants of the monarchy. Such ignorance to think that it is by any means the complete and only truth.

What a total lack of understanding of the origins of the words you and I both hold so dearly. I know. An angle presenting a different gospel from plates by mr smith with no archeological evidence found in the us saving a different gospel does no make it.

You know little of what you are commenting about. The evidence is strewn about the Guatemalan and Yucatan peninsulas. One only needs to look. The plates were commanded to be carried for many months and buried where they were in upper state NY. It says this in the book itself, which is a compilation of many authors testimony of what happened.

It is becoming more and more clear that these were the pre-mayan peoples. The main reason I am disillusioned with the church is because of the corruption. I could go on and on. The reason to be disillusioned is their own apologies. Excuse me! That was written before Mormon plates and it is different gospel altogether based on a false christ whom Mormons say is created and not the Real Christ who cheated the universe man who left his Heaven to become man and died for our sin. Col To trust in a different christ one that was created , is no christ at all.

And in the end, whoever trusts in the christ instead of the Living Chirst will still be in their sins. Which is why the correct Christ Deity not the plate man made one christ who as created Is pivotal to where you will spend eternity in heaven with God forever forgiven by Christ Deity who paid the price for our sins or hell paying you your sins yourself, without God, forever.

Because the created mormon christ can not forgive sin. The mormon may spell the same but eternally different. Still sounds like you are taking it wrong. You still seem to know little of what you are talking about because what you are spewing is really confusing. You must have gotten this stuff from some hateful evangelists. What are you talking about? The teachings of Christ in the book of mormon are almost a perfect mirror of those in the new testament.

Who told you these lies? If you would like to ask some basic questions about our beliefs, then I will answer them for you. Not confusing at all I know a lot of Mormon there lives look better cleaner than mine they are knowledgable and a lot of good works. The thing is that has nothing to do with sin how good you are. His birth He was born of a woman and by Gods Spirit. Isaiah ; Matthew ; Luke , 34 which make Jesus able to give salvation to those who call on his name by Faith alone and not works. Works will never save anyone because works can not erase sin.

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And I do not disagree with your words or quotation so please tell me exactly what it is you think you are saying about mormons? Of course everyone sins. Who told you we believe otherwise? You need both. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father but by me. If any man is in Christ he is a New creation Titus God gives us the desire to do good works to please Him and gratitude for what he has done for us. We will want to do good works God puts His Holy Spirit into our heart to know him.

I pray that He will you insight into this. Salvation is found in no one else their is no other name by which we must be saved. This site explains it better. That branch of my family believes they are the only Church because Joseph Smith is the only one who got the right temple plans, the right doctrines and covenants and the best testimony ever from the angel, and confirmed it all with the burning in his bosom that it was the right way. Because all the denominations around were false and displeased God so much he appeared to JS. So if it is indeed the only church, why frequent a site not even talking about the LDS church.

Seems strange, the missionaries that have come to my door tell me your Church is growing leaps and bounds, so why are you coming to a website for Church plants, that are not being done by your church. The BOM is not based on Biblical christianity, because remember JS was given the right gospel and doctrine because the current ones were lacking, right.

And he had more revelation for going back to taking more than one wife, because that was what was done in ancient days, right? Even though the actual temple ceremony has NO origin in Hebrew culture but in the occult practices of ancient times, that were heathen and paganistic. Messiah never had a brother, in Satan. The fact is Joseph Smith had a whole different occupation, something quite contrary to ALL scripture. He created a new religion based on some obscure notions, and tried to pawn it off as the new deal.

He got quite the following and it is still going. LDS build churches and perpetuate a very large real estate venture adhering to good moral principles. Jesus Christ, Messiah, came to build a Kingdom not of this world, not associated with Kolob, but to have a Bride saved by grace, by HIS shed blood, period. Not rituals, not works, not anything that man can do gets them to the spiritual Kingdom.

The Body of Christ is the Bride, the only heavenly marriage happening there. No extra planets, no need for anymore priests as He alone is our high priest. No need to create more spiritual progeny.

If There Is a God, Why Are There Atheists?

Do you feel like you grow more spiritually by helping a stranded motorist or by looking at wrong images on the internet? I would adamantly say the former. By practicing righteousness we strengthen those spiritual muscles. If we fail to take action, the next time it will be easier to do the same. Faith is all that is needed for salvation. Jesus died not just for original sin, but for ALL of our sin. We can only accept his offer of salvation. All of our works are but as dirty rags so that no man may boast that his salvation comes in any way from his own effort.

If it were, how then did the thief on the cross go to Heaven? Either Jesus was wrong not possible or the belief that baptism would be required for the thief or anyone to go to Heaven is wrong. But back to your point, Jesus said you will know a tree by the fruit it bears. A dead tree bears no fruit. A dead faith bears no fruit. But the act of bearing fruit doing works is not what makes the kind of tree works is not what makes a Christian , it is how they are identified.

In addition to this, many people also make the mistake of thinking that all works have to be outward. This very egregiously overlooks the most important works, those of growth and change in the believer. Many of these works will not be observable at a casual glance, but only through detailed retrospection and an examination of your past vs your present self. Faith and works go hand-in-hand as one responds in trust and obedience to God.

It is obedient faith that saves. LDS go around baptizing dead corpses. The Gospel of Christ is for the living — not the dead. Once you are dead its too late to accept Christ. Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles off, and many of the Jews had come to Martha and Mary to console them concerning their brother. So when Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went and met him, but Mary remained seated in the house. But even now I know that whatever you ask from God, God will give you. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.

Do you believe this? Not what you assume….. Just to clarify, LDS do not baptize corpses. And never have. It is proxy baptism performed by the living in behalf of the dead. I agree with just me, you dont need works for salvation. Many a man have confessed on their death bed, were baptized and saved.

Does that mean they dont receive the same reward? The problem is thier version of the Bible changes the words and tus the meaning of referenced verses. You cant get through to them. No Holy Spirit dwelling on the inside of them. And no, the claim that they both draw from the same source material is not an answer. This is text that was added by the KJV translators to clarify passages that did not easily translate into English. In other words, they are additions that had to be added during the act of translation, they were not present in the original text.

It tries desperately to please the political climate as far as possible. First is was sanctioned as what God intended, so the brethren needed to get more wives, then in comes the government sanctioning it illegal for impending statehood, and gee, it went away mostly. Dud you are a clown, that is destined to an eternal he l if you do t denounce your pride, repenting of your sins to the living God that He mat extemd salvation unto you. You can perhaps infer it from the text, if you are so inclined, but there is no question that understanding is not taught in the bible, if so, will you show me where?

To the contrary He reaffirmed the teaching of one God in Mark Jesus kept dietary laws AND the sabbath before and after His resurrection, but modern Christianity uses weak verses to abandon those. The problem with this idea is that Joseph Smith himself claimed that upstate New York was the site of the climatic battle. I understand that since then, as no archaeological evidence is present, the church has revised the location to the Guatemalan and Yucatan peninsulas. The problem this presents though is that Joseph Smith made these claims based on divine revelation and was a prophet i.

However, the need for revision shows that he clearly was fallible, therefore his claim to be a prophet is shown to be false. The Bible is very clear on this for how we are supposed to test a prophet. Additionally, that is not the only instance in which Joseph Smith was wrong when claiming to speak in his role as the prophet. Or any number of other issues, claims, doctrines that the church has since had to revise. They are not of faith, they are false, they are crazy, etc. Why because if you are LDS you accept and believe and are convinced that he alone was infallible on such matters.

It is JUST that the rest of the world is hateful towards the true church, right? I challenge you to read the Book of John, chapter one. Sue, I think you lost translation somewhere. She is a Christian with LDS family members. Read the posts toward the top. And Joseph Smith tells us God came from the planet Kollob, almost spells something else in reverse. Please know this. You cannot serve GOD with your head, you serve him with your heart. Serving GOD with their heads is the main cause of division in the church today.

Serving GOD with your heart requires faith, requires love, requires grace, mercy and all other fruits of the spirit. If we, as a church, unite in serving JESUS, in spirit and in truth, then we will impact the world more effectively and our intentions, for the world to be saved, will be effective.

GOD bless you all. None of us including you my friend were there but you choose to believe that. And for that matter, why are you on here trying to argue the facts using what is in our own opinions a false doctrine? I am sure you know by now that you are talking to us as if we were part of the LDS community. None of us except for you are LDS. I know that I am not. I live with my LDS friends too. We definitely are family to each other but we are and always will be in separate churches. I will be straight forward with you and tell you right here that us Christians do not believe in the Book of Mormon.

Most of us see the Mormon church as a cult and false religion. Now I personally say that you really should see your way out of this conversation since we are not going on your mormons blogs and trying to prove our point there. My friends and I have a solid respect for each other. We agree that we all believe in God. But we also agree that we have completely different beliefs. I am a Christian and they are Mormons. And that is how it will always be. Of all the places Joseph Smith mentioned, not one trace has been found.

He also mentioned items,such as swords that have not been found on this continent. His writings are so obviously a fraud, that I wonder anyone is fooled. Grace means unmerited favor. It has nothing to do with being righteous. We are saved by Grace not by our works. When we are in Christ Jesus, we have a rudder where we know in ordinary things what is right or wrong.

So in this life we will have troubles. Also we repent very quickly and go to bed forgiven in mercy. Jesus is the only one to follow….. Jesus said…. Remember he still has a thorn in his side…True! You said…. If not check with G-d…….. No one comes to the Father except by ME…. Your Church nor your Pastor is the way…. Bless you. That hardly seems fair to anyone except your group.

It is called the Fires of Faith and is freely available. It very clearly disputes your ideas that the books were handpicked and groomed to the tastes of King James. If you are LDS then you should know that your opinions on this differ from what your church officially states…. Oh that your eyes and ears could receive the revelation that your religions serves man and NOT a Holy God. Jesus is the Head and the church is His body. What happens when the head is severed from the body? Jesus and His church are one. The church is also the bride of Christ. There is so much more.

The Bible as we know it was actually determined in CE with Constatine and the leaders of the various factions of the Church. King James was the one who got the Bible translated into the KJV as it was before all the other various translations of the Bible came to be. He only commissioned a translation of the very same books translators had been rendering in English since the beginning of the Reformation starting with Tyndale, continuing through the very popular Geneva Bible, etc.

The four gospels we have had been recognized throughout the church from very early on there is strong evidence in the second century. Some creative revisionist history being spun there. King James hand picked the books to be included huh? Do some actual historical research. What a foolish man you are, that you have placed your trust in your intellect. How sad it will be for you on the Great White Throne Judgement, if you do not denouce your pride and arrogance, falling to your needs with a broken and contrite heart, that the one who saves, may receive you into his blossom, remembering your sins no more.

You clearly have no revelation of what that scripure means. This means we judge another in light of what the Word of God says. So, you my friend stand guilty as charged. Your intellect means nothing to Jesus! Few have understood what the significance of this Scripture. People do not have a revelation of the Lord for themselves, their own revelation from the Lord about himself, without a revelation of the Lord there is no strength to stand in Him.

So beautifully said. I am reading the word more, praying and listening for confirmation—that still, small voice of the Lord. I have not given up on corporate worship. I just got tired. Too busy. Praying and trusting God for my life and the answers. I know he had planted me where I am but I just had to get away for a while. Lord help the organized church. I really am. Thank you for your insight also. Clearly you have no idea, that you are using the scripture incorrectly and out of the proper context.

John That means to judge according to His Living Word. You really should stay away from christian topics and blogs, for your ignorance testifies against you. Fortunately there is more than sufficient evidence even just in the gospels themselves. Unfortunately your logic is foolishness in light of the Holy Scriptures. Your argument is against Jesus, not me, as I only spoke His words! Translations since then may or may not have faltered, but if you think for one minute that God was not in control of that then you have no true understanding of God.

And there are books in the Bible go all the way back to Moses who, under the direction of God, wrote the first 5 books of the Old Testament. God has shown Himself all throughout the Bible, and the churches history, and into today, whither people choose to see it or not. How do I know what I believe is true? The Holy Spirit confirms it. Am thinking of 1 John ?? But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Bankruptcy of Atheism

Same old trick, different cult. All your rightousness is as filthy menstrual rags before the Most High God. He is not like unto your old man on the planet Kolbol. He is a consuming Fire. Even now He is coming with His Angels to bring judgement. The axe is layed unto the root. This blog would have been better suited years ago.

The Knowledge of the Atheist

Not to mention your article is more devisive than unifying. I feel this blog merely contributes to a growing group of Christ Followers more interested in the idea of changing the world rather then actually doing it! This is an interpretation. For me, I see this as Christ saying, I have other sheep who do not yet know me not of this fold , but through you I will bring them into the body of Christ. And what of the baptisms for the dead, which are actually commented on in the new testament.

To think as many churches do, that the billions who have lived never even having had a chance to receive the teachings of the Lord, would be damned? How silly would this be? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And also the requirement that any church of Christ would have the required callings of a prophet, apostles, seventies, bishops, elders, priests, teachers and deacons? Will you sweep this aside as well? The answer is rather obvious from the context of the gospels. This is a central point emphasized repeatedly throughout the New Testament Acts shows us the transition, and Paul frequently explains this reality, e.

He was speaking of the Gentiles. The other sheep are simply gentiles, that is all of us not the Children of Israel. We are those putting faith in Christ and of the grafted in branch. Meaning us. Too, true.